Rfalconcam Forum

Has a date been set for banding our little foursome? And will we be suggesting and voting on names again this year?

I contacted June Summers (GVAS) yesterday to ask if she had a date for banding and she said she expects to hear from Jenny Landry (DEC) next week.  ;)

Yes.

Awesome. Now I guess I better start doing some research for names I want to suggest.

Just been wondering why banding of Times Square falcons is such a quiet event compared to the hoopla that was always surrounding the Kodak Office banding events where there were usually school children involved and it was a big deal!? We barely get notice of when the bandings will take place since Beauty came to town.  :(

Been wondering that myself, MAK. 

I may be way off base, but I suspect it's that Kodak sponsored the hoopla. Once they evicted Mariah & Kaver Kodak wanted nothing more to do with the falcons in any way, shape or form.

We're on our own now without a corporate sponsor to host it. While the businesses at Times Square love having them there, it's a lot of smaller companies. I don't think it would be realistic to expect them to throw a big bash.

And while we have a wonderful group here very few of us are actually there. And what funds we have need to be dedicated to keeping the equipment running.

Just my opinion.

Good points, Ei.  Also, it's probably not good for the birds to have too much hoopla.  Still, I think there is enough interest here to have something, and I'd love to see a school get involved with naming one of the falcons again. 

DEC would prefer to keep it simple. Hoopla complicates things. Without an overarching organization with experience in hosting large meetings like Kodak had to handle the logistics, things can get out of hand quickly. We tried it in 2010, and things got enough out of hand to make DEC request that banding be kept simple.

Thank you!

Okay, good to know.  :)

I read the reasons for no hoopla, but I still wonder why it takes so long for them to let us know when the banding will take place. It seems the last couple years we don't find out the date till a day or 2 before!

Because things can get out of hand quickly.

Probably won't get an answer but how does giving forum members a heads-up on banding day create a 'hoopla'?  Guess I don't get it.  :confused:

If we could keep it  to Forum members only, it might not get out of control, but the Forum can be read by anyone on the Internet, and it regularly is. There's no telling what could happen once the information gets out. Without assurances that order could be maintained, DEC is left with no choice but to follow a policy of better safe than sorry.

Um, how can things get out of control? So people come to watch from the street like the rest of us watchers-how could that possibly affect the banding process by the DEC inside the building? And what happened at the 2010 banding?

I was going to ask the same thing...good questions.

Really? Isn't it obvious?

What happens when people start coming into the building? Oh, you don't think that will happen? Who's going to stop them? You? Again, we're talking about anyone on the Internet who happens to read about the banding. They may not even read it here. They may read it on facebook after it has been shared a dozen times. They may read it on twitter after it's been retweeted a dozen times. They may read it in email after it's been forwarded a dozen times. They may hear it from a friend on the street after it's been discussed a dozen times.

Then there are the people who work in the building. They may want to come up to see firsthand. And they may invite their friends and family. "Oh, who's going to mind if my nephew joins me. He just loves animals."

Then there are the news media. What happens when they show up? Who's going to be the poor sap who appears on the evening news as the bad guy pushing the poor cameraman out of the room for no good reason (except that the bright lights and microphones were stressing the eyases and the banders, but that would never get reported).


Uninvited guests. Unexpected cameras. Unexpected reporters asking questions. Lack of coordination between GVAS, building management, tenants, and DEC. People on nearby rooftops.

I would predict a 100% chance of one or more of the above to reoccur if the banding date is announced in advance.

Kodak made its share of mistakes with the falcons, but one thing it did right was organizing a banding event. They had full control of the situation: security, media access, prepared press kits, guest relations, conference facilities, and an experienced staff who knew what they were doing and followed orders without question (because they wanted to keep their jobs).

We have nothing even remotely close to that, and until we do... better safe than sorry.

First of all Shaky, there's no need to pop a vein over a couple simple questions. I guess I'm wondering why there can't be coordination between DEC, GVAS and building management. I've been to many,many banding events in Toronto, which has millions of people and the Canadian Peregrine Foundation announces their banding events and not once have I seen anything get out of control. I guess we want exposure for everything but banding events eh!?   :rolleyes:

Whoa! I'm sorry! I didn't mean to open up such a heated discussion! I was just wondering why we weren't told about the banding until the last minute! Now that I know the reasons, I understand.

A lack of a qualified staff for all parties. DEC and building management doesn't have the money to hire that staff. GVAS relies on volunteers and hasn't been able to attract and keep enough people with the combination of appropriate skills and the free time to carry out the necessary tasks.

First of all, I already answered those simple questions. It gets a little annoying to have to do it over and over again when I have so many other more important things to do.


A shortage of staff for all parties. DEC and building management don't have the money to hire that staff. GVAS relies on volunteers and hasn't been able to attract and keep enough people with the combination of appropriate skills and the free time to carry out the necessary tasks.

Also, building management doesn't have a lot of say on how tenants run their businesses. For example, management can't make it too difficult for the tenants' clients to enter the building, or the tenants will leave (maybe even sue -- they are lawyers, after all). So just about anyone can enter the building and potentially interfere with banding.

Well alrighty then-was just askin'! I'm done now cuz I have important things to do too! :tease:

The situation may be different for some reason, but Evanston is right on the border of Chicago, and lots and lots of people are interested in the falcons. The banding is always on a weekday morning; it's announced in the media, on the internet, open to the public and press, and takes place on the third floor of a library. It gets a bit crowded, but nothing at all out of hand that I ever saw. The Field Museum folks bring the eyases down, take blood, band them, answer questions, pose for a photo op . . . no one rushes the banding table or acts obnoxious . . . so it's possible. There are always a bunch of parents who bring their kids, and they get to come closer.

I didn't get to go this year - no longer live on that side of the city and was working . . . too bad...

If anyone should be invited, it should be the main watchers!  :handshake:  :D

There is a big difference between a building owned, used, and staffed by a singe entity; and a building rented out to many small, budget-conscious law offices whose clients may want to avoid crowds.

Banding at TSB is not done in a big public space typical of a library. It's done in a vacant (abandoned?) office on an upper floor that can't be reached by elevator. The only other option would be to do it in the stairwell. Neither are optimal for spectators. It would be a situation just asking for something to go wrong

And that's how things get out of hand.

I agree, but that's only one point of view. DEC may have another pov. The building owner may have yet another.  And what about tenants and their employees? What about GVAS? Sponsors?

Who's pov counts? Who's in charge? Who has a say? Who is responsible if someone is injured? Who is responsible if a falcon is injured? What's the plan? How are these various parties supposed to interact with each other? Who wants to organize it? Who has time to organize it? Will it be satisfactory for all parties? Why should a party follow a plan if it doesn't agree with it?

Holy ???'s Batman!!  :stupid:

Nothing might go wrong, but that's definitely a different sort of location!!  A library is so welcoming and already-public -- open and set up for and insured for the public. What you're describing is entirely different, of course!

 :( Please, could everyone back off just a bit and drop this discussion before someone's feelings are irreparably hurt? The quiet non-public banding is how it's going to be, no matter what anyone posts on the forum. This entire topic is becoming more and more unpleasant each day, and that saddens me.

Dot in PA

I agree, it could get heated and go on forever but this needed to be discussed. We have lots of new members who I'm sure are just as curious as the rest as to the banding protocol. Now we all know it's just not the right venue for public viewing. We were just spoiled with the MK bandings! It's all good! I think Shaky answered every question imaginable!  :handshake:

All except "What is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?"

Well????  :surprise:

Every web cam site bands differently.  I think more often than not, it is just a very small group or only the bander.  In the case of upstate NY, isn't your DEC person relatively new?  I'm still waiting for Ben's GoPro video of the Jersey City banding.  But I also know there is a lot of banding going on right now and usually only one person may be doing it for a whole state.

No worries Dot-my feelings haven't been hurt and I'm sure it's all good with everyone else that has been involved with this discussion. It's all for our beloved falcons!  ;)

Thanks Shaky for your taking the time to answer these questions.
When the topic comes up again in the future, you can just refer them to this one.

You're welcome.

with or without a falcon on its tail?

African swallow or European swallow?

Huh? I... I don't know that.

[Shaky is thrown over the edge into the Genesee gorge]

Auuuuuuuugh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2R3FvS4xr4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2R3FvS4xr4#)

:2thumbsup:

Why not hold the banding outside at a local park only a short distance from the Times Square Building. Then most of the issues go away .  I know you all are on some kind of time clock to get them out banded and back but is that really necessary since they are older and hardy compared to the 10 day old eyas being transported for fostering into nest boxes across states and who bounce back very well.. I'm sure a short transport wouldn't harm or stress the little ones any further if they were kept hydrated. Not across the county but just blocks away to a staging area. I can picture Watchers in their matching tees with placards holding back the masses. Was the last public banding the first time Beauty had offspring after our Kaver and Mariah disappeared? Maybe that stirred up more of a frenzied interest. Are their public bandings in Canada or out west held anywhere else off site from the nesting area?
Then again there's always the exception Tesh   :surprise: Never seen an eyas down on their back for a half hour .. That's really one for the record books lol

in my opinion I'd rather watch it on camera than take any chance of something happening to an eyas, this sounds like a bad idea to me.

Liability concerns. Logistics concerns. Security concerns. Jurisdiction concerns. Just to name a few.

Just an idea   :thumbsup: I would never want to put any eyas in danger  :'(. Thats why I wondered if it were done safely at other sites to see how difficult it is to put together. You have such lovely little parks in Rochester and dedicated watchers its sad to hear they dont get to see any bandings anymore since Kodak. I remember the school children that used to love to name an eyas and I could just imagine their little faces when they saw them up close after watching them for weeks on the cams. I bet many of those children grew up with a love of nature because of those times and events
From here in NJ I thank you all for what you do putting together the videos so I can share in the day each year. Enjoying the new and reminiscing about the ole  :falcon:

That was very well said Caitie.

Hi Caitie!  Thanks for sharing your idea.   :wave:

think the banding should be done as close to 'home' as possible to keep the time away as short as possible to keep the stress as low as possible.

I've read the FAQs about how to tell Beauty and Archer apart and how to tell Beauty and Dot.ca apart. On both it says that Beauty has a green and black band on her left leg and that the males have all black bands. Is this is always the case -- females get green/black bands and males get all black bands. I've noticed at least two of the eyas have green/black bands so wonder if that means those are female.

The difference is where they hatched. Archer & Dot.ca were both hatched in Canada which uses black/black vid bands. Black/green is eastern US. Black/red is Midwest US. California also uses black/black.

Addendum...Black/red was used in the east at one time. The usfws band on the other leg is silver in eastern US & Canada. It's purple in the Midwest.