Rfalconcam Forum

I know everyone has been very patient about waiting to hear if there are any eggs at Kodak Park.  The Watchers have been very busy trying confirm if there are any.  From the ground, through scopes and long lenses, we have witnessed behavour that suggests there is at least one egg in the scrape.  Dana and I thought we could see a bit of dark red in the scrape through the scope this past weekend, the color of a Peregrine egg.  But we couldn't be sure.

This afternoon, an employee spoke to Joyce.  He wanted to let us know that they were pretty sure that there are two eggs in the scrape!

We will continue to keep an eye on the situation at KP and report what we see and try to get & share more information.

it seems to bother us more than it does Beauty....or Unity for that matter.

He's a stud muffin who wouldn't want his eyases

I don't think we can really ever know how Beauty feels about it but I think there was definitely something going on with her when there was 8 days between the 1st & 2nd eggs.  I believe that's the time A started visiting the KP female.

I think this goes on far more often in the wild than we know.  Think about it - you only need one bull for a herd of cows.  Not a fair comparrison, but consider just how many females vs males that M&K had.  It makes sense for the male to have two families - especially a young male. 

no he was seeing her before that maybe even last year. What I think bothered her was (if my memory serves) there were flights into her space by Unity (or some other falcon). She was worried about a nest/territory take over, that would be my guess. But when Unity seemed to be happy with KP she settled back down and laid some more eggs. (after all she did it to Mariah so she would know)

I've said to some Forum members in the past that I also think that Archer was the tiercel at KP last year too.  "Both" tiercels migrated about the same day (according to sighting reports that I read) although some watchers think the KP male last year was bigger than Archer.  I guess only A knows for sure.

hey archer--some bad news--looks like the "hard lifting" isv about to start, you little stud!

If Unity does have off-spring I will be curious to see how all them get along if they and Beauty's off-spring end up at the gorge someday. And how is Archer going to handle training off-spring from 2 different families at the same time? He's going to be a real busy father!

Don't forget, if Unity's eggs are viable, they won't hatch until sometime in June, when A and B's kids are already learning to fly. What I'm worried about is if one of them follow Archer over to KP. You know how kids follow dad? Could be interesting and maybe dangerous.

Actually, I'm guessing that the kids will be ok, whereas the adult females might be escorted a bit forcefully out.

Can someone give me a better idea of where Unity's nest is. Kodak Park is a big place? I live about 2 miles from there and am very interested.

This is the power plant on Weiland Rd. off Ridgeway Ave. at Kodak Park. If you go, you must park in lot 77 only and call Kodak security @722-2121. Give your name and tell them you are there to watch the falcons.  ;D

Thank you, that puts them a lot closer to where I live then I thought. Maybe I will get a chance to get there and see Unity and Archer this summer since I do not go downtown.

I hope to see you there sometime! I forgot to mention that if someone else is there when you get there and they have already called security you don't have to. Just the first to arrive has to call in. :wave:

Thanks again MAK.

 :handshake: We are ALL part of the team. We'll need all the help we can get once the kids arrive!  ;)

If Unity's eggs hatch are the eyases going to be able to be banded? anybody know?

I don't know for sure if they'll be able to band the KP eyases or not.  As far as I can tell, there is no access to that area.  We're in close contact with Kodak and the DEC.  I hope, together with them, we'll figure it out.

My son and family live off of Weiland.  We will be visiting them for 2 weeks the end of May - beginning of June.  Maybe I can get in some "watching" at KP.  Now that we live in TN, I miss the Rochester action SO much.

You are most welcome to join us anytime Lizz.  I look forward to meeting you.

Poor Beauty.

Are the eggs still viable at Unitys site or are they goners also.

bev -

We're fairly certain that the two eggs Unity originally laid at Kodak Park (KP) are not viable.  We aren't certain what caused the abandonment of the eggs.  At this point in time, we haven't yet confirmed with insiders at KP if the eggs are still in the scrape or have been removed.  We are able to see a falcon at the scrape, but we cannot actually see the scrape.

This is Unity's first time with a mate, and anything could have happened.  Watchers were not able to keep an eye on this site on a regular basis so we aren't sure if Unity stopped incubating the eggs because this is her first time, or if it was caused by the realization that her mate had another female, or because of the battle Unity had with Beauty.  Possibly all of the above.

With all of the copulation that has been going on between Unity and Archer, and little activity with Beauty, we suspect there may be a second clutch at KP.  At least we are hoping.

Joyce

P.S.  So glad your favorite gal is back in your sights on a regular basis.  I remember how heart broken you were after the battle.  Glad to hear E4 was found as well.   Amazing how we stay addicted through all of the hardships we see...and still come back for more.  Nothing like it, is there?

This evening on Watch, Dana and I spoke to one of the workers inside the power plant.  He reported that there are still two eggs in the scrape.  One is broken.  We assume that these are the original two eggs that Unity laid and abandoned.

He also reported that there has been a lot of activity inside the scrape, which we knew already from our Watches, and that they are very active a few feet away from where the old eggs are located. 

Will there be a 2nd clutch at KP?  Only time will tell.

As a follow-up to my falcon watch tweets regarding Unity sitting in the scrape, and Archer under the pigeon box...here are some pics.  The first 6 of U&A were taken around 5:22pm and the last 2 of U were taken when it was almost dark at 9:05 pm. Normally she is perched on the still late in the evening.

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Very odd behavior for this time of year. What's going on with her. Maybe she just realized, "Oh I have eggs?" Great pics though for sure.

I'm just catching up again since last night, Joyce.  What do you think all of this means?  They are great shots, and obviously, unity has something of interest in the scrape.  What do YOU think?  You have been watching for years, and are expert ....what's up here?   Tell us...please?  I think the bond between A and U  is a bit stronger than between  A and B...as sad as that makes me feel...but I am only human, and I will leave that part out   :-)

@margaret...Sorry, I am no expert in falcon courtship and two females with one male is all new to me and the rest of the Rochester watchers. From reading about known dual sites with one male, if both females accept the situation, then it will continue. I honestly don't think Archer is favoring one location or female over the other.  He considers both sites within his territory and unless he is defeated in one or both, I am not sure things will change. You may think he favors U over B because he spends a great deal of time there, but the behaviors of the two females are different right now.

Beauty is in after nesting mode and her hormones have settled down, where as Unity's were active longer and that's why Archer kept pursuing. She still acts like she wants to nest, maybe because this is her first time with a mate. Her behavior yesterday and today in the scrape surprised Brian and I since the watchers have only seen U&A sitting in various locations and periodically renewing their bond at the scrape. This evening when Unity was not in the scrape, there were no visible signs of eggs.  The ones seen previously have disappeared.

Below are pics at KP around 5:06pm. Unity was in the scrape and Archer perched under the pigon box. When we returned around 8:55pm, there were no falcons in site, then one was spotted on a still.

Thanks Joyce, we have so much to learn still. Maybe someone here can explain how Jack acted when he first courted two females. Did both females in Canada lay eggs and have successful hatches the first time? Next year, (I'm sure your right), Archer will continue to court both and the girls will be used to his behavior and there won't be as much stress as this year. I can't go another season like this, we may have to adopt a few eyases to put in each nest site.

Great pics, thanks!!

Donna - when Jack first started courting TR Mom, it was during fledge season (so in June) at his main site so he already had 3 offspring.  TR Mom also had 3 but her mate Milton had been injured so she was bringing up 3 kids on her own and wasn't too excited about Jack coming around at first. She waited until her guys were flying well before she really started to get comfortable with Jack.  At that point he was spending more time here but would check in there to try and woo the other female with flight displays and 'food' gifts.

His bond with Angel was already established and strong as they've been together for several years so it's difficult to compare with Archer and Beauty - though together for a few years now, they've had various challenges that weren't experienced here.  Once the kids at both sites dispersed, Jack did spend more time with TR Mom for several months - to the point where I honestly thought he had abandoned our site however in hindsight it makes sense as he had to court TR Mom and establish a bond with her.

Last Spring he mated with both females and Angel's eggs hatched first - about 5 days prior to TR Mom's - so yes both females had successful nests the first time out in this situation.  Milton was also released about 1 week prior to eggs hatching and so Jack had a territorial battle with him and spent far more time with TR Mom than he did this year during the critical period when he was needed here.  However this year he was here alot more and we figure that's because there was no 'Milton' waiting in the wings so he wasn't worrying about losing any territory.  The timing of hatching likely also drove his behaviour as well as our eggs hatched a good week before his other site.

Now since our kids fledged I've barely seen Jack the past week and he's spending more time with TR Mom and their lone juvie.   I think it's really a 'fluid' situation and really depends on what is happening at each site that drives Jack's behaviour as it doesn't seem to be consistent. In other words we can't predict what he's going to do anymore.  Both of his mates are also several years older than both B & U so he is dealing with two mature females that have established sites and routines whereas in your case, you have Beauty who has some experience and Unity who is likely all over the map with hormones this year due to her young age so it's really a learning experience for everyone.

I think Joyce's assessment below is spot on regarding where Beauty and Unity are in the process. 

Thank you so much Carly, it all makes sense, well kinda. Who knows what will happen next season. It's not a good situation, if you ask me. I'd love to see Unity with a new mate and Archer with Beauty. I really don't see that happening and hopefully, if it is the trio again, better things will come of it. We need BABIES!!!

(Don't need any battles either if a new male comes through)

 :wave: Carly thanks for the insight. It has been a perplexing year for us here and we are afraid next year will likely have the same result as this year. I too, would like to see another tiercel with Unity but that could mean a bloody battle and no one wants that. Only time will tell!  ;D

Thank you Joyce for a  great explanation and helping me to understand a bit more of what is going on. 

Since the first mention of the pigeon poop nest box I have had concerns about if eggs had hatched would the eyases have survived. Cryptococcus is very dangerous fungus for humans and I would think birds also. Has there been any discussion for installing a nest box at KP so adults and hatches would have a safe place to raise their family and not spread it to Beauty's nest.
Rita - Syr


www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/epi/epi-pigeon.shtml (http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/epi/epi-pigeon.shtml)

I spent a few hours at KP this morning and Unity was again laying down in the scrape, like she's incubating.  Archer was up inside the pigeon box, which is very close to the scrape.

The whole time I was there, neither moved, so I was not able to get a look at what she's laying on with the scope.  I'll try again later.

All of this is very interesting, but I freely admit that I have no idea what's going on here.  This is all new to us and all we can do is observe and report, which we will.  We'll all learn together.   :happy:

As to the question about the pigeon poop hole aka scrape.  I asked Mark about that and he wasn't too concerned.  I continue to keep the DEC updated on what is going on and hopefully next year a nest box or tray can be installed.  - Carol P.

Thanks Carol,
I did not want to bring it up in the beginning as there was enough upsetting stuff going on at the time.

You're welcome!   :wave:

Wow so much information & in the end it's all up to the falcons & all we can do is watch

Just read on twitter that there are two eggs and Unity is incubating.  The question was will the eggs hatch this late.  I was at fledge watch in Richmond VA in 2009 on Aug 22 and 23 watching the second clutch take flight.  If the eggs manage to hatch next week, 40 days later is Aug 25.  Yes, it gets cold erlier in Rochester than in Richmond.  Nothing is impossible.  There may be fledglings in Rochester yet!!  And they may even get a mild fall.

Anybody have an idea when hard incubation began?

Kris,
I remembered that Joyce had tweeted something about U looked like she was in incubation mode . It was on July 3. reply #5111.
 If the eggs are viable hatch should be early August maybe around the 6th. Fledge would be in September. 

Also everyone, please remember Rochester usually has a mild September and October. The earlieest snow I remember was October 31.

I think our October and Novembers have been mild in recent years.   Sometimes even our Decembers aren't all that bad -- or am I just getting used to these upstate winters after all these years ? (Hated them when I first arrived here?)    It's usually the Jan-March that are pretty ugly. 

Really, would it matter? Zephyr was here through winter because he was at the brighton site with Beauty.  So it might not make a difference if it is late. 

I wonder if the 2 eggs MAK posted in her June 17th FalconWatch report are the one's she is sitting on now?
photo/MAK

After MAK alerted us of eggs at the scrape, I checked my pics and found 2 eggs in a photo on Sunday June 12th, 5 days before.  Old or new eggs?


Here are some pics of today's watch at 3:16 pm:
     

On my way home I check to see if Beauty is on Xerox.  Sometimes it is so dark, that I have to use my camera to tell.  This was taken at 9:27pm:

This whole egg thing baffles me. Even if these are NEW eggs, she just started laying on them. If these are OLD eggs, did she just suddenly feel inclined to start incubating? Maybe it's a long over due reaction that should have been done like long ago. I don't even think Google can help me with this answer. (http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l136/sophialuvharry/More%20Stuffs/Animated%20Gifs/349005t197aate6p.gif)

Great night shot that looks like day Joyce. Thanks.

think archer stayed into Oct last year

Well, we all saw the two eggs sitting up front back in June, but they either were disposed of or pushed back further where they are now being incubated.  These two eggs were not cracked, so they were at least a 2nd clutch.  Now the question is, are they the eggs being incubated?  Or is there a 3rd clutch of eggs?

Guess we'll never know and all we can do is wait and see.

All the Rochester Watchers are keeping an eye on them and will let you know if anything changes.

Carol P.

Yes, Archer did stay until sometime in October last year.   

Personally, I  think all of you ROC Watchers know more than you let  on to us "couch perchers".  :D  ( I say that with reverence!)
You are all so knowledgeable about our falcons, so I think this clutch is going to hatch, and that the Falcon Flakes will revel in the new birth in the snow!    :happy:

lol Margaret!  :lol:  We (the Rochester Falcon Watchers) have absolutely no idea what's going on at KP.  It's all new to us and we're as baffled as everyone else.  Wish we were able to give some answers, but we truly don't have any.

All we can do is report what we see.   :falcon:

I think the rochester falcons are so used to seeing the watchers in all kinds of weather and through all 4 seasons that they have conspired to give the watchers something exciting to see -- in addition to the snow flakes.  Falcon flakes (watchers) vs. snow flakes!

I received an email on the 9th (of July) at my work address from one of the workers at the power plant at KP where the scrape is located.  He said that they are very certain that there are two eggs and that both Unity and Archer are trading off incubating.  It looks like they (the falcons) have dug even deeper into the scrape and that's probably why we can not longer see the eggs from below.  They (the falcons) were seen turning the eggs.

Sooooooooo, the question is, are these the old eggs that are probably not viable?  Or are they a new clutch?   :confused:

We'll keep watching and reporting what we see.  and I'll share what I hear from the folks that work there.

We've spend so much time trying to get pics and see into the nest, but we are only at KP for limited watches.  So, on Saturday I called my falcon fan contact inside the plant. He wasn't available, but I ended up talking to one of the supervisors.  He said they were up on the walkway and were pretty sure that the two eggs were new ones.  I tweeted it out, but it probably got lost in all the Buffalo tweets.

Later I got a return call from my contact and we talked about the location being moved.  I asked if anyone could keep us up to date on what they observe.  I mentioned we have only seen Unity in the scrape and that she looks like she is incubating eggs.  I told him we are interested in any activity with the male.  I also said the eggs may not hatch being so late in the year, but please keep in touch.

I'm glad they followed up with you by email Carol, as I didn't get a chance to post this before I was off to Buffalo the next day.  The workers also offered to take pictures for us if they can borrow a camera.
 

I'm glad they followed up with you by email Carol, as I didn't get a chance to post this before I was off to Buffalo the next day.  The workers also offered to take pictures for us if they can borrow a camera.
 

[/quote]

Borrow a camera?????

One time they borrowed one of our camera's to confirm eggs in the nest, but it was the same week some of the watchers were granted a visit to KP anyway...and Lou posted the album for that.

Now we can see a falcon sitting in the scrape, and before we couldn't see one when it was farther back.

Carol mentioned a 3rd clutch?  I never thought of that. Boy this is all new to me.  If there is a hatch, these babies will be picking off colored leaves from the trees.

I thought it was funny that folks from Kodak wouldn't have a camera.  These falcons are just amazing this year!

I didn't think of it that way I see your point  :2funny:

Sorry to say that it looks like incubation of any eggs in the scrape at Kodak Park has ended.  It's been a few days since any Watchers have seen any incubation taking place.

From where we are allowed to watch, it's impossible to tell if there are any eggs left in the scrape.  We'll keep watching and reporting what we see at both KP & Times Square.

Why don't you give your contact at the plant a call and have him check it out for us!  :wave:

I have emailed them.  Waiting for an answer.   ;)

I was there for about a half hour tonight and saw nothing peregrine wise.  One finch and three butterflies!

Hey Jeanne - four things flying...that's pretty good!

Oh, by the way, most of the people running Kodak Plant are not Kodak employees. No wonder they had to borrow a camera.

I received an answer to my email this week from the folks that work at the power plant where the KP scrape is located.  They had been made aware that the falcons had been incubating and saw that there was only one egg in the scrape, a little further north from the original depression.  This was different than the two eggs that had been previously seen at the front of the opening.  So, was this a 2nd or 3rd clutch?  Guess we'll never know.  I am quite sure that incubation has ended.  Neither Unity or Archer have been on the eggs in over a week.  This has been a strange year indeed for the Rochester Falcons and Falcons everywhere.

Thankfully we've had so many other Falcons and their young to watch.  Here's hoping for a successful Rochester Falcon season in 2012.   :falcon2: