Rfalconcam Forum

I've been reading the comments here and on Face Book about what has happened this year with "our" Falcons.  Now that the season, as it was, is over.  Two females, one male and no young.  Not a great situation, but it is what it is.  None of us would have chosen for this to happen, but it did.

Many comments say that they are sorry for Beauty, but not Archer & Unity.  Others are sorry for both Beauty and Unity.

Personally, I feel sorry for both Beauty & Unity and even Archer, who is only doing what he is driven to do.  Am I happy about it?  Of course not.   :(

Also, we lost many members when we lost Mariah in a battle with Beauty.  I've had conversations with many of you about this.  I wasn't happy about the situation, but I have come to love and respect Beauty over the past couple years.  Loved her and Archer's young, Callidora & Jemison.   I do not blame her for doing what she did, for being a Peregrine Falcon.

When S2 took over the nest from Ma and became Pa's mate, the old KFalconcam board exploded with some pretty bad stuff.  Now, we all cheer her on.  Hoping that she gets well and returns to Pa.

So, what's on everyone's mind about this situation?  Let's have an open discussion about this.  I am forever curious.   :happy:  

I just like watching falcons and I love them all!  :heart:

Me too MAK, me too.   :happy:

Well, you all know me after all these years...excessive anthropomorphizing tends to get my hackles up.  While I freely admit to AWWW-ing and  :wub: :wub: ing along with everyone else, I cannot find it in me to feel sorry for Beauty, Archer or Unity because I don't believe they feel sorry for themselves.  They're just doing what they do...being peregrines.  Look at Ranger & Hunter.  They've been together for 10 or 11 (?) years and not a single eyas to show for it.  Yet they stay together.  They're content with their lives...who am I to second guess them?

Perhaps-no, not perhaps, we WERE-spoiled by so many years of success.  I think what we're seeing now is much more common than we realize.  I feel very sorry for US that there weren't any fluffballs this year and I have shed quite a few tears over it...but the tears are for ME, not them.  This year has...not been a great one for me in many ways. I really really hope there is some...I don't even know what the word would be...resolution seems wrong because there's really no conflict.  Beauty drew the territory line and neither has crossed it since that we've seen.  Equilibrium maybe?  Settling in so they can each succeed?  Whatever the right word is, I hope we see it next year.  I hope I have more of a chance to bond with Unity next year too.

Meanwhile, I am eternally grateful for having any peregrines to watch.  And for finding these peregrines to watch.  And the friendships that have come with them.  And I do love them all.

All I know is I wanted to move to Rochester and Ed said NO!!! That's how much I love Peregrines! Nuff said!  :(

Well said Ei.  I really do think that this has been a year of "balance" between two territorial females that just happen to have the same mate.  They seemed to feel each other out and maybe "except" the situation just a little bit in the end.  Certainly not in time for either to have successfully had young.  There was a little pushing back and forth between Beauty & Unity.  Feeling out boundaries.  Unity entered Beauty's territory with a witnessed battle on the Kodak Tower.  Beauty was seen at Kodak Park once.

Let's hope that next year will be successful, either with one male or two (preferably two!).  We'll all just have to wait to see what happens when Archer migrates.  This may be a very interesting Winter for the Falcon Flakes.   :natale3:  

Ah, poor Donna.  We would love to have you here.   :wave:

Just for the record, Donna-you're not nuts!  As the uncertainty of my current work situation continues to brew I'm finding myself looking at want ads in Rochester as much as I'm looking around here...

Cool!

What she said!

Seriously, I'm pretty much with Ei on this...it's too bad there weren't young peregrines in Rochester to watch, both for the sake of the local watchers and the remote ones, but I don't feel comfortable projecting my feelings on Beauty, Archer, or Unity.  Also like Ei, it's been hard-going lately, I've lost both parents and a job in the last two years and my worry list is full enough.

Patti

So sorry for your losses Patty. 

Ei, Donna, anyone else that would like to move to Rochester.  You're all welcome!   :clap:

I am not happy with the situation either- two females, one male, no young, potential fatal territorial battles. But all truly wild creatures carry on with their lives as they have been programmed to do for ages. My pleasure is to watch and learn the intricacies of their lives. Any sadness I feel, and I do indeed feel sadness, has to do with wanting an outcome that increases the number of peregrines. I love seeing how they interact with their mates and how they nurture their young and teach them how to survive. That is unfortunately not always possible. Beauty, Unity, Archer, and Mariah are living their own peregrine lives. Just because I don't always like the results doesn't mean the birds are evil or unhappy. It means they are wild peregrine falcons, nothing more and nothing less. There have been so many sad stories from this year's nesting season, and I wish it were not so. Still, I feel privileged to have the opportunity to look in on them. I give my most sincere thanks to all the watchers who keep me informed even though the news may not be good.

Dot in PA

You're very welcome Dot.  We all do it with much pleasure.   :happy:

When I worked at the accounting firm, I had the Kodak camera feed on in the background all day, it was my stress relief.  I shed tears on my desk when Mariah was hurt and still taking care of her babies, and Kaver was taking care of them all.
Now, I don't have that access at work, but I do read all the posts, it's just not the same size part of my day.  However, I must say that the *people* here are as big a draw to me now as the soap opera actions of the Falcons.  WE will never know what became of Kaver, but since Mariah was banded, at least we may someday know her fate.  Meanwhile, we can follow some of her descendants, which is great too...
Carol
WV

I think many of us shed a tear in public that year Carol, my friends wonder about me sometimes.   :laugh:

and I, like you, no longer have access to the internet during the day.  It's a bummer, but that's the rules. 

It's truly amazing that there are so many M&K kids out there for us to see and follow.  Including Beauty and Archer's young ones, Callidora & Jemison.  Quite amazing!   :happy:

Patti,  I am so very sorry!!!

I've been pretty absent this year and I do miss having young falcons (though that first week of fledging is just :scaredblue:).  I really am not bothered by anthropomorphizing.  I probably lean in that direction at times.  Who knows what animals feel and think?  But that said, I think it is awesome that we have falcons though this one male- two females situation coupled with no babies at either site is perplexing and sad.  It is just absolutely awesome that we know where so many of our M/K offspring are.  I only wish we would know where Mariah is.  I miss her like crazy.  And Kaver, who I miss and wish was banded

That said, the one wonderful constant is the watchers and that makes any gathering (whether it be in a parking lot or a restaurant) really fun!

Mariah and Kaver were very special and will never be replaced - a very large part of me left with them.  

My original purpose of joining the KFalcon Group was to learn, AND learn I have.  One of the delightful sidebars of that learning has been Mirta's wealth of knowledge about bats!  I liked bats before, but thanks to Mirta, I've learned that they are "cute" and go through rehab, too.

Back to the Falcons...  Like many of you, I believe that A, B, & U are involved in something that happens far more often than we know.  Add to the recent recovery/rebound of the species (now in urban environments in addition to the traditional cliffs and ledges) and there are a LOT of predators out there - many competing for the same food source.  Is this part of their internal programming to address their hormones, but prevent adding to the predator competition?  Don't know, but I don't think the events of this season were accidental.  Add to the failure of many nests in the Lake Ontario region, detailed by Mark Nash, and I think Rochester's "plight" was a part of the whole.

As for my viewing any of the current 3 with affection?  Not going to happen!  Archer is a hound-dog and from the get-go demonstrated that he liked "variety".  So be it!  I have to remind myself that these are birds, but Beauty should have kicked his feathered backside to NJ!

This is the basic problem here.   As people we tend to assign emotions to animals.  I have some cats (house only, the only wild animal they get to catch are files).   Their emotions/wants/needs are VERY different from ours.

Having said that, one day a few years ago I had an office on the top of building 82 (Kodak research complex on lake ave).  Soon after Mariah got kicked out of her territory in downtown she started being a regular around the research labs.   One day, just outside my window, a pigeon exploded.   Mariah making a meal out of a flying rat.   Seeing that made me smile.


Last I saw of Mariah was several years ago now.


To me, this is the cool thing about this list.   We have a neat little community.  I just wish I could participate more.   I've been lurking on this SIG (and previous versions of it) for at least 10 years now.

I love this board. I have learned so much about falcons, bats, other birds, and many other creatures from all the many postings. I am a bit distressed by the lack of empathy for our newest falcons from so many members of this group, and I can understand that. Part of it is missing Mariah and Kaver, who gave us many wonderful years. Part of it is not having any chicks to watch. I think we gloss over the fact that falcons are part of the wild kingdom. All wild creatures have two main priorities - survival and procreation of the species. I have been an active bluebirder for years and closely followed the wild wolf pack in upstate NY when I lived there. I have seen bluebird chicks taken by predators.  I have seen both male and female bluebirds oust and maim another of their own sex in order to claim a mate and/or a better nesting site. I have seen wolves hunt in cooperatively in packs for efficiency but seen the same wolves maim or kill the alpha male or female when that animal is too old or weak to keep its place at the top. I have seen adult wolves kill the weakest of their cubs. I've had to learn how to balance out the good and the bad when I'm observing nature, and to remember that it is what it is.

Mariah could not match Beauty's youth and strength and would have been killed had Carol not stepped in. Archer, who was Mariah's mate at the time, joined Beauty in her effort to kill Mariah. Archer now has found two females willing to be his mate. Sooner or later there will probably be a lethal battle to determine whether Beauty or Unity rules the skies near Kodak.  Does this mean our falcons are horrible creatures? I don't think that's fair. Remember Beauty and Archer giving us so many glimpses of tenderness while raising their two daughters last year?  Peregrines incorporate both these extremes, like it or not.

We humans are animals too, and currently at the top of the heap. We have managed to overlay our animal instincts with concepts like "conscience" or "emotions". We tend to believe in love, goodness, faithfulness to one's mate, and all the rest of it. That's a very good thing for a cooperative stable society but it sure is a far cry from having to survive on one's own in a hostile environment. If we were back in caveman days, we too would no doubt be fighting viciously to ensure our survival and to attract the strongest possible mate. So Archer is a two-timing creep? No, he's a male who is lucky enough to have found two receptive females. The concept of "two-timing" is just not there for him, nor should it be.  Archer turned on Mariah and tried to help a new female kill her. So he's a murderer with no loyalty?  To our way of thinking, yes.  But what Archer recognized was his chance to mate with a newer stronger female who would produce stronger chicks.  Are Beauty and Unity jealous when they watch Archer go to another site? Do they sit sadly awaiting his return?  We don't know. Somehow I doubt it. These falcons are only doing what they have done for thousands of years. Do we really have the right to say that their actions are wrong or evil? Do we dare to judge a wild creature after the toxic wreck we humans have made of the land, sea, and air? Rochester Falcon Cam provides a wonderful opportunity to peek in on falcon lives. I think we should enjoy and learn, not condemn. I too miss Mariah and Kaver and have found the events of the last three years very difficult. I agree that it just isn't the same any more. But please, don't judge Beauty, Unity, and Archer by our often-flawed human standards and emotions. That only makes things harder for me to bear.

Dot in PA

Christiane posted this on kfalconcam:

Thanks to everyone that has posted so far.  It's so nice to read what everyone has to say about what's been going on here in Rochester.  We are such a diverse community, and the one thing that holds us together is our love of these beautiful creatures.  Please continue to post what you think about the Rochester Falcons situation.  We would love to hear from you all.   :wave:     

I love Dot's comments. Well said, Dot!    I sense much emotion from everyone who has posted here.
It has been a difficult couple of years.   I "lurked" on the old kfalconcam and followed for a long time, but fell into "PeFa addiction"  in 2007-2008.    The year Quest and her other sibs were hatched was a thrilling year, and I even ventured downtown for the first time when they were flying the gorge and at KT.   I found 2009 a very difficult year -- as so many of you long time watchers did - with the dismantling of the  nest box, Kaver not returning and Mariah's injury.  We all shed many tears. 
I agree with Dot and others that we all lost something when we "lost" Mariah and Kaver.    I still believe that Mariah is somewhere here...I too, thought I saw a Pefa over 590 by St Anne's this spring.  I still believe in Mariah despite her age.  She was one smart, tough, feisty falcon. 
Archer and Beauty  have been confusing, interesting, maddening, but fun to watch.   I loved watching Callidora and Jemison last year, and was thrilled to witness Callidora fledge and would love to know where they are.
The big joy  was Quest!   This was a thrill this year.  I have been a fan of Quest since her hatch,and followed her faithfully since 2008.  To see Quest and Harlequin and the "circle of life"  perhaps brings us closure as well as joy.   To be able to see Linn -- who resembles Mariah so much  -- is also a joy.
I have learned so much about our falcons, and yes, it is an interesting crew who watch and post here.  So we are not just learning about Pefas.
You watchers on the scene ---Carol, MAK, Joyce, Dana, Brian , and Shaky who keeps it all going, and all the rest of you!   ...You have my utmost respect and gratitude  (and envy)...you are out there, rain or shine, snow, hail, rain, winds, darkness and Rochester weather is rough! 

Each year brings new events, so "hope springs eternal".  Perhaps Mr. T will arrive to keep Beauty company this winter.  Since B has been pretty cool to A this year, perhaps she will be more accepting of Mr. T's advances this year. 

Think eggs and eyases for 2012!               

i've read  the above and must agree--as Ei said much of the sadness is for ourselves---beauty, archer and unity are peregrines not humans--they intrinsicly understand that nature is nature--not always kind, and their destinies are to live as the peregrines they are, free and wild---certainly nature seemed cruel this year, yet glorious as well as we watched Quest, Kendal, and baby Harlie---nature offers us no promises, just hope--and that is what I'll hold on to for next year----from callidora, jemison--to this year--i want to thank you all for
your helping me to learn more and for sharing this incredible journey w/me  :heart: :heart: :heart:

Just one more thought...

Rochester's "lack-luster" year gave all of us the time to pay attention to Quest and Harlie.  Think about it  ;)

There are many dedicated people who keep it all going.

I just fill in the cracks.

Like Shaky said,

"There are many dedicated people who keep it all going.

I just fill in the cracks."

It is really about the Rochester Falcon Folks.  Just think what an entertaining year it has been on this forum and that's without fledglings in Rochester.  I absolutely had to check out the falcon soap opera every day.  Little did you guys know you had a real romance novel brewing in Toronto.  I had hoped to get up there in July, but life got in the way.  (I really do go up to see the fledglings.)  And I LOVE visiting with everyone.  You all seem to be so happy to see anyone who posts or watches the forum.  The Genesee River that flows through the center of town is quite beautiful as is Lake Ontario.

Trust me, the falcon fledglings will be there in abundance next year.  Don't forget, you have three relatively young falcons determining territories and pecking order.  Let's keep our fingers crossed and our eyes to the skies and on the internet.

Yes!  Shaky is the SPACKLE that binds us together.   :2funny:

We missed you too this year Bonnie!   :wave:

That's exactly what I said to Dana the other day Janet.  Look at all the things we were able to see and accomplish this year because of NOT having fledglings to watch.  Helping out with two rescues at CT Buffalo and helping out with the fledge watch at the many nest sites.  Visiting and helping out with fledge watches with our good friends up in Canada.  Seeing Rhea Mae, Quest, Linn, and all their mates and young and attending all the banding days.  and Stormin!  How awesome was that!  He is a very special Tiercel and an M&K Grandkid.  This has been an outstanding year as far as I'm concerned.

But next year, I do hope we have young of our own again.  Absolutely nothing beats falcon fledge watching here in our home city.  As Dorothy said to the Wizard, "There's no place like home.  There's no place like home."   :heart: :wub: :heart:

It is all part of God's plan, which includes helping the other watchers and helping other people.  Agreed, Carol - a good year!

The first Falcon love of my life was Kaver, I truly do not think he ever left Rochester (if you go back and read the old Kfalcon posts Mariah was hanging out in all of his old spots I think she was looking for him) I respect Mariah what a lady. I do not like what happened to her and was not thrilled with Beauty or Archer for that very reason. I wish we knew exactly where she is and maybe Mr T went and  found her (ya just never know.)

But then A&B gave us Calli and Jemison. They earned my "grudging" respect. Now it drives me crazy when everybody says how sorry they are for Beauty. She is a fierce falcon and not an object of pity. She has earned my loyalty and I care about her, but I love Archer he is Kaver's grandson. He has not slighted either of his ladies. I think the problem this year was not having two females, I think it was enviromental there seemed to be a lot of problems out there this year. Watching Beauty protect her eggs during that storm getting soaked, such dedication and all for eggs that were not fertile, now that you can feel sorry about.

In a perfect world each of "our" girls would have their own mates. But I fear if a tiercel moves in over the winter there will be a territorial battle. Archer will not give up some of his territory without one.

I hope next year, things work out that there are so many eyas in and around Rochester that the watchers don't know which way to look.

This year it  was a joy to watch Quest, Kendal and Harlie and not to forget the little Cinni mini

Kaver was seen by both Brian and I after the Tiercel was found at UofR.  I saw that Tiercel.  It was not Kaver.  What happened to him will forever be a mystery, especially since he is unbanded.   :(

Everyone on this forum has different opinions, different feelings about what happened in the past and what is happening now.  It's good that we all "talk" about it.   :happy: 

Don't get me going on Kaver, I miss him...BIG time. I just can't see him leaving and not coming back for his Mariah. Nothing would keep him away from his lair. Not Archer and not Beauty. So what happened to him? It was time for him to Migrate when he disappeared...after that, will always haunt me. I actually thought that was him at U of R and people were just keeping it quiet, I honestly did but if Brian, (he knows his birds) and Carol saw him after, then I'm just gonna have to believe he is still out there looking for his Love, Mariah.

(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn53/Koppernicus/smileys/thaacb1564.gif)

I don't remember reading that you and Brian saw Kaver after the dead tiercel was found.  The story I remember was that you were asked to look at the dead tiercel and didn't think it was him but took pics to other watchers to look at to see if they thought it was him. Then one of the watchers said she saw Kaver that same day and had taken a pic, the pic had a timestamp on it that indicated that the picture of Kaver was taken after the dead tiercel had been reported found at U of R.

That was the picture that Kathy O took with her phone.  The timing was determined to be too close to say.  Brian and I separately saw Kaver well after the Tiercel had died at the U of R.  I believe it was a day or so later.  My sighting was Mariah and Kaver on the communication tower and Brian's sighting, if I remember correct, was somewhere downtown.  Both M&K on Midtown maybe, can't remember.  I'll have to ask him.

Both of us are very sure we saw him.  As I said, I'm afraid we'll never know what happened to our Kaver.

Donna - I agree that Kaver would have returned if he could to his Mariah.  I also like to think he's out there somewhere, flying free.

I am sorry for you that you dont have babies this year. It is for next year for sure.
And like Patti said, there are things very much hard to live in our lives, I can tell you.
Falcons dont tell us what to do. We do not have to tell them what to do.
Good luck to Archer, Beauty and/or Unity
Nicole

Obviously, I don't check in too often anymore, but I like this topic.  I think those of us who experienced the Mariah and Kaver years will always miss them.  There was a long history there and we thought we knew them so well!  Nothing will ever be quite the same, but life is full of good-byes and changes.  I've had a bit of trouble "warming up" to Beauty, but it is what it is.  The triangle in Rochester is certainly interesting and Archer is quite a guy  and, of course, Mariah's grandson!!  I know I loved watching the babies last year and was as worried about Jem as any of M&Ks offspring  -- let's hope for more success next year!
One thing I do miss is keeping up with all of you -- somehow it seemed a bit easier on the KFalconcam board, but I do love this site.  I'm sorry to hear of Patti's losses and I know several other members have had some sad times.  I think of you all so often and am so grateful to all of you that keep the home fires burning!!
Vandrefalk

Hi Karen!   :wave:  Miss you so much my friend.  Hope all is well.  Thanks for your thoughts about this.   :happy:

Hi everyone,  I have been off the board for some time.  Just catching up.  Several things have keep me from signing in.  The changes to the board have been too complicated for this "old soul". Plus I lost interest when the nest box was changed to the new location.  I have no clue where it is downtown, as my knowledge of downtown is very limited and I'm hesitate to venture down there alone. As for the Kodak location, I don't have a clue.  Have been reading this discussion and found it to be very informative.  Thanks for updating me as to the many changes that have taken place.
 Helen R

Hi Helen!  Posting is the first step in figuring this place out-and you did just fine!  I know there was a sea of mixed emotions when the nest box was moved.  But we've come to love Beauty and Archer.  It's not the same as M&K, but I do believe we're re-building our community from a very hard time. 

As to the location of the new nest box-I don't know what you know of downtown, but it's on the building catty-corner across Exchange & Broad from the Blue Cross Arena.

There's a map of all the locations linked on the bottom of the page and

here (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&gl=us&ie=UTF8&view=map&msa=0&msid=205710850252386003057.00046b277dfa2d0212e58&ll=43.157078,-77.608109&spn=0.020944,0.02944&t=h&z=15)

Hi Helen!   :wave:

Thanks for posting your thoughts.  We should meet sometime and I can show you where the two new nest sites are.  Ei posted a nice map of the Times Square area where the new nest box is located.  The other is located at Kodak Park off of Ridge Way between Lee Rd and Mt. Read.  Take care and hope all is well with you.

A lot of us have forgotten that Archer did a great job of incubation.  What if one or more eggs had hatched?  That likely would have ensured that he had little time for Unity.  He was a good father last year and might have been an even better one this year.  We might even be comparing him to Kaver.

I had a good falcon summer.  I got to experience courtship, egg-laying, and incubation through  rfalconcam.  Afterwards, I got to experience the post-nesting life of a peregrine pair through the reports by MAK, Carol, and others. I followed Quest, Kendal and Harlequin, and got to see a fuzzball become a falcon. Finally, I spent lots of time with my own pair.  Even though they are far more experienced and in a milder climate, they only hatched one out of four, so that there could have been an nest failure here as well.

I missed out on seeing my falcon friends again during Fledge Weekend.  With only a single juvenile at my site, I also missed out on talon tag.

I keep thinking of the poetic passage by Glenn Stewart of the SCPBRG, which I have posted before in its entirety:

...The strong and the lucky are the ones that end up on an eyrie ledge, face into the wind. And their annual production of young--their courtship, 33 days of meditative attention to their eggs, and 60 or more days of care and feeding of their young--is a hedge against the spring when they are no longer at that eyrie. So they each get this chance. They push their way out of an eggshell and struggle to hold their head up in a cold world. They grow and they fly. With strength, determination, and a measure of luck, they are out there each day, face into the wind.

I love that phrase.  As long as they face into the wind, I'll be there, too. It's the least I can do.

Paul

Well said Paul!!

I love that phrase.  As long as they face into the wind, I'll be there, too. It's the least I can do.

Paul

Thanks Paul!   :clap:

One of the things I was most looking forward to was seeing Archer's parenting skills mature.  We have to have faith we'll have that chance next year.

Facing into the wind together...

I know I'll be there with my face to the wind or anything else that comes along!  ;)

Tears in my eyes as I read the quote.  Something to keep in mind.  Well said, Paul

Miss you too -- all is well and I'll be in touch soon!!
Vandrefalk

Ei, thanks so much for posting map of location of nest box. I still am very hesitant about going downtown alone.  Guess it something to do with age. lol
Carol, I appreciated your offer of showing me where the Kodak location is.  I'll try to made a date that is convenient  for us both.  I'll be in touch. 

Thank you so much, Paul.  I have tears in my eyes