Banding & Naming Questions

[MAK]

DEC would prefer to keep it simple. Hoopla complicates things. Without an overarching organization with experience in hosting large meetings like Kodak had to handle the logistics, things can get out of hand quickly. We tried it in 2010, and things got enough out of hand to make DEC request that banding be kept simple.

I read the reasons for no hoopla, but I still wonder why it takes so long for them to let us know when the banding will take place. It seems the last couple years we don't find out the date till a day or 2 before!

Because things can get out of hand quickly.

Probably won't get an answer but how does giving forum members a heads-up on banding day create a 'hoopla'?  Guess I don't get it.  

If we could keep it  to Forum members only, it might not get out of control, but the Forum can be read by anyone on the Internet, and it regularly is. There's no telling what could happen once the information gets out. Without assurances that order could be maintained, DEC is left with no choice but to follow a policy of better safe than sorry.

Um, how can things get out of control? So people come to watch from the street like the rest of us watchers-how could that possibly affect the banding process by the DEC inside the building? And what happened at the 2010 banding?

[Kris G.]

DEC would prefer to keep it simple. Hoopla complicates things. Without an overarching organization with experience in hosting large meetings like Kodak had to handle the logistics, things can get out of hand quickly. We tried it in 2010, and things got enough out of hand to make DEC request that banding be kept simple.

I read the reasons for no hoopla, but I still wonder why it takes so long for them to let us know when the banding will take place. It seems the last couple years we don't find out the date till a day or 2 before!

Because things can get out of hand quickly.

Probably won't get an answer but how does giving forum members a heads-up on banding day create a 'hoopla'?  Guess I don't get it.  

If we could keep it  to Forum members only, it might not get out of control, but the Forum can be read by anyone on the Internet, and it regularly is. There's no telling what could happen once the information gets out. Without assurances that order could be maintained, DEC is left with no choice but to follow a policy of better safe than sorry.

Um, how can things get out of control? So people come to watch from the street like the rest of us watchers-how could that possibly affect the banding process by the DEC inside the building? And what happened at the 2010 banding?

I was going to ask the same thing...good questions.

[Shaky]

DEC would prefer to keep it simple. Hoopla complicates things. Without an overarching organization with experience in hosting large meetings like Kodak had to handle the logistics, things can get out of hand quickly. We tried it in 2010, and things got enough out of hand to make DEC request that banding be kept simple.

I read the reasons for no hoopla, but I still wonder why it takes so long for them to let us know when the banding will take place. It seems the last couple years we don't find out the date till a day or 2 before!

Because things can get out of hand quickly.

Probably won't get an answer but how does giving forum members a heads-up on banding day create a 'hoopla'?  Guess I don't get it. 

If we could keep it  to Forum members only, it might not get out of control, but the Forum can be read by anyone on the Internet, and it regularly is. There's no telling what could happen once the information gets out. Without assurances that order could be maintained, DEC is left with no choice but to follow a policy of better safe than sorry.

Um, how can things get out of control? So people come to watch from the street like the rest of us watchers-how could that possibly affect the banding process by the DEC inside the building?

Really? Isn't it obvious?

What happens when people start coming into the building? Oh, you don't think that will happen? Who's going to stop them? You? Again, we're talking about anyone on the Internet who happens to read about the banding. They may not even read it here. They may read it on facebook after it has been shared a dozen times. They may read it on twitter after it's been retweeted a dozen times. They may read it in email after it's been forwarded a dozen times. They may hear it from a friend on the street after it's been discussed a dozen times.

Then there are the people who work in the building. They may want to come up to see firsthand. And they may invite their friends and family. "Oh, who's going to mind if my nephew joins me. He just loves animals."

Then there are the news media. What happens when they show up? Who's going to be the poor sap who appears on the evening news as the bad guy pushing the poor cameraman out of the room for no good reason (except that the bright lights and microphones were stressing the eyases and the banders, but that would never get reported).

And what happened at the 2010 banding?

Uninvited guests. Unexpected cameras. Unexpected reporters asking questions. Lack of coordination between GVAS, building management, tenants, and DEC. People on nearby rooftops.

I would predict a 100% chance of one or more of the above to reoccur if the banding date is announced in advance.

Kodak made its share of mistakes with the falcons, but one thing it did right was organizing a banding event. They had full control of the situation: security, media access, prepared press kits, guest relations, conference facilities, and an experienced staff who knew what they were doing and followed orders without question (because they wanted to keep their jobs).

We have nothing even remotely close to that, and until we do... better safe than sorry.

[MAK]

DEC would prefer to keep it simple. Hoopla complicates things. Without an overarching organization with experience in hosting large meetings like Kodak had to handle the logistics, things can get out of hand quickly. We tried it in 2010, and things got enough out of hand to make DEC request that banding be kept simple.

I read the reasons for no hoopla, but I still wonder why it takes so long for them to let us know when the banding will take place. It seems the last couple years we don't find out the date till a day or 2 before!

Because things can get out of hand quickly.

Probably won't get an answer but how does giving forum members a heads-up on banding day create a 'hoopla'?  Guess I don't get it. 

If we could keep it  to Forum members only, it might not get out of control, but the Forum can be read by anyone on the Internet, and it regularly is. There's no telling what could happen once the information gets out. Without assurances that order could be maintained, DEC is left with no choice but to follow a policy of better safe than sorry.

Um, how can things get out of control? So people come to watch from the street like the rest of us watchers-how could that possibly affect the banding process by the DEC inside the building?

Really? Isn't it obvious?

What happens when people start coming into the building? Oh, you don't think that will happen? Who's going to stop them? You? Again, we're talking about anyone on the Internet who happens to read about the banding. They may not even read it here. They may read it on facebook after it has been shared a dozen times. They may read it on twitter after it's been retweeted a dozen times. They may read it in email after it's been forwarded a dozen times. They may hear it from a friend on the street after it's been discussed a dozen times.

Then there are the people who work in the building. They may want to come up to see firsthand. And they may invite their friends and family. "Oh, who's going to mind if my nephew joins me. He just loves animals."

Then there are the news media. What happens when they show up? Who's going to be the poor sap who appears on the evening news as the bad guy pushing the poor cameraman out of the room for no good reason (except that the bright lights and microphones were stressing the eyases and the banders, but that would never get reported).

And what happened at the 2010 banding?

Uninvited guests. Unexpected cameras. Unexpected reporters asking questions. Lack of coordination between GVAS, building management, tenants, and DEC. People on nearby rooftops.

I would predict a 100% chance of one or more of the above to reoccur if the banding date is announced in advance.

Kodak made its share of mistakes with the falcons, but one thing it did right was organizing a banding event. They had full control of the situation: security, media access, prepared press kits, guest relations, conference facilities, and an experienced staff who knew what they were doing and followed orders without question (because they wanted to keep their jobs).

We have nothing even remotely close to that, and until we do... better safe than sorry.

First of all Shaky, there's no need to pop a vein over a couple simple questions. I guess I'm wondering why there can't be coordination between DEC, GVAS and building management. I've been to many,many banding events in Toronto, which has millions of people and the Canadian Peregrine Foundation announces their banding events and not once have I seen anything get out of control. I guess we want exposure for everything but banding events eh!?   

[glothom]

Whoa! I'm sorry! I didn't mean to open up such a heated discussion! I was just wondering why we weren't told about the banding until the last minute! Now that I know the reasons, I understand.

[Shaky]

DEC would prefer to keep it simple. Hoopla complicates things. Without an overarching organization with experience in hosting large meetings like Kodak had to handle the logistics, things can get out of hand quickly. We tried it in 2010, and things got enough out of hand to make DEC request that banding be kept simple.

I read the reasons for no hoopla, but I still wonder why it takes so long for them to let us know when the banding will take place. It seems the last couple years we don't find out the date till a day or 2 before!

Because things can get out of hand quickly.

Probably won't get an answer but how does giving forum members a heads-up on banding day create a 'hoopla'?  Guess I don't get it.  

If we could keep it  to Forum members only, it might not get out of control, but the Forum can be read by anyone on the Internet, and it regularly is. There's no telling what could happen once the information gets out. Without assurances that order could be maintained, DEC is left with no choice but to follow a policy of better safe than sorry.

Um, how can things get out of control? So people come to watch from the street like the rest of us watchers-how could that possibly affect the banding process by the DEC inside the building?

Really? Isn't it obvious?

What happens when people start coming into the building? Oh, you don't think that will happen? Who's going to stop them? You? Again, we're talking about anyone on the Internet who happens to read about the banding. They may not even read it here. They may read it on facebook after it has been shared a dozen times. They may read it on twitter after it's been retweeted a dozen times. They may read it in email after it's been forwarded a dozen times. They may hear it from a friend on the street after it's been discussed a dozen times.

Then there are the people who work in the building. They may want to come up to see firsthand. And they may invite their friends and family. "Oh, who's going to mind if my nephew joins me. He just loves animals."

Then there are the news media. What happens when they show up? Who's going to be the poor sap who appears on the evening news as the bad guy pushing the poor cameraman out of the room for no good reason (except that the bright lights and microphones were stressing the eyases and the banders, but that would never get reported).

And what happened at the 2010 banding?

Uninvited guests. Unexpected cameras. Unexpected reporters asking questions. Lack of coordination between GVAS, building management, tenants, and DEC. People on nearby rooftops.

I would predict a 100% chance of one or more of the above to reoccur if the banding date is announced in advance.

Kodak made its share of mistakes with the falcons, but one thing it did right was organizing a banding event. They had full control of the situation: security, media access, prepared press kits, guest relations, conference facilities, and an experienced staff who knew what they were doing and followed orders without question (because they wanted to keep their jobs).

We have nothing even remotely close to that, and until we do... better safe than sorry.

First of all Shaky, there's no need to pop a vein over a couple simple questions. I guess I'm wondering why there can't be coordination between DEC, GVAS and building management.

A lack of a qualified staff for all parties. DEC and building management doesn't have the money to hire that staff. GVAS relies on volunteers and hasn't been able to attract and keep enough people with the combination of appropriate skills and the free time to carry out the necessary tasks.

[Shaky]

DEC would prefer to keep it simple. Hoopla complicates things. Without an overarching organization with experience in hosting large meetings like Kodak had to handle the logistics, things can get out of hand quickly. We tried it in 2010, and things got enough out of hand to make DEC request that banding be kept simple.

I read the reasons for no hoopla, but I still wonder why it takes so long for them to let us know when the banding will take place. It seems the last couple years we don't find out the date till a day or 2 before!

Because things can get out of hand quickly.

Probably won't get an answer but how does giving forum members a heads-up on banding day create a 'hoopla'?  Guess I don't get it.  

If we could keep it  to Forum members only, it might not get out of control, but the Forum can be read by anyone on the Internet, and it regularly is. There's no telling what could happen once the information gets out. Without assurances that order could be maintained, DEC is left with no choice but to follow a policy of better safe than sorry.

Um, how can things get out of control? So people come to watch from the street like the rest of us watchers-how could that possibly affect the banding process by the DEC inside the building?

Really? Isn't it obvious?

What happens when people start coming into the building? Oh, you don't think that will happen? Who's going to stop them? You? Again, we're talking about anyone on the Internet who happens to read about the banding. They may not even read it here. They may read it on facebook after it has been shared a dozen times. They may read it on twitter after it's been retweeted a dozen times. They may read it in email after it's been forwarded a dozen times. They may hear it from a friend on the street after it's been discussed a dozen times.

Then there are the people who work in the building. They may want to come up to see firsthand. And they may invite their friends and family. "Oh, who's going to mind if my nephew joins me. He just loves animals."

Then there are the news media. What happens when they show up? Who's going to be the poor sap who appears on the evening news as the bad guy pushing the poor cameraman out of the room for no good reason (except that the bright lights and microphones were stressing the eyases and the banders, but that would never get reported).

And what happened at the 2010 banding?

Uninvited guests. Unexpected cameras. Unexpected reporters asking questions. Lack of coordination between GVAS, building management, tenants, and DEC. People on nearby rooftops.

I would predict a 100% chance of one or more of the above to reoccur if the banding date is announced in advance.

Kodak made its share of mistakes with the falcons, but one thing it did right was organizing a banding event. They had full control of the situation: security, media access, prepared press kits, guest relations, conference facilities, and an experienced staff who knew what they were doing and followed orders without question (because they wanted to keep their jobs).

We have nothing even remotely close to that, and until we do... better safe than sorry.

First of all Shaky, there's no need to pop a vein over a couple simple questions.

First of all, I already answered those simple questions. It gets a little annoying to have to do it over and over again when I have so many other more important things to do.

I guess I'm wondering why there can't be coordination between DEC, GVAS and building management.

A shortage of staff for all parties. DEC and building management don't have the money to hire that staff. GVAS relies on volunteers and hasn't been able to attract and keep enough people with the combination of appropriate skills and the free time to carry out the necessary tasks.

Also, building management doesn't have a lot of say on how tenants run their businesses. For example, management can't make it too difficult for the tenants' clients to enter the building, or the tenants will leave (maybe even sue -- they are lawyers, after all). So just about anyone can enter the building and potentially interfere with banding.

[MAK]

DEC would prefer to keep it simple. Hoopla complicates things. Without an overarching organization with experience in hosting large meetings like Kodak had to handle the logistics, things can get out of hand quickly. We tried it in 2010, and things got enough out of hand to make DEC request that banding be kept simple.

I read the reasons for no hoopla, but I still wonder why it takes so long for them to let us know when the banding will take place. It seems the last couple years we don't find out the date till a day or 2 before!

Because things can get out of hand quickly.

Probably won't get an answer but how does giving forum members a heads-up on banding day create a 'hoopla'?  Guess I don't get it.  

If we could keep it  to Forum members only, it might not get out of control, but the Forum can be read by anyone on the Internet, and it regularly is. There's no telling what could happen once the information gets out. Without assurances that order could be maintained, DEC is left with no choice but to follow a policy of better safe than sorry.

Um, how can things get out of control? So people come to watch from the street like the rest of us watchers-how could that possibly affect the banding process by the DEC inside the building?

Really? Isn't it obvious?

What happens when people start coming into the building? Oh, you don't think that will happen? Who's going to stop them? You? Again, we're talking about anyone on the Internet who happens to read about the banding. They may not even read it here. They may read it on facebook after it has been shared a dozen times. They may read it on twitter after it's been retweeted a dozen times. They may read it in email after it's been forwarded a dozen times. They may hear it from a friend on the street after it's been discussed a dozen times.

Then there are the people who work in the building. They may want to come up to see firsthand. And they may invite their friends and family. "Oh, who's going to mind if my nephew joins me. He just loves animals."

Then there are the news media. What happens when they show up? Who's going to be the poor sap who appears on the evening news as the bad guy pushing the poor cameraman out of the room for no good reason (except that the bright lights and microphones were stressing the eyases and the banders, but that would never get reported).

And what happened at the 2010 banding?

Uninvited guests. Unexpected cameras. Unexpected reporters asking questions. Lack of coordination between GVAS, building management, tenants, and DEC. People on nearby rooftops.

I would predict a 100% chance of one or more of the above to reoccur if the banding date is announced in advance.

Kodak made its share of mistakes with the falcons, but one thing it did right was organizing a banding event. They had full control of the situation: security, media access, prepared press kits, guest relations, conference facilities, and an experienced staff who knew what they were doing and followed orders without question (because they wanted to keep their jobs).

We have nothing even remotely close to that, and until we do... better safe than sorry.

First of all Shaky, there's no need to pop a vein over a couple simple questions.

First of all, I already answered those simple questions. It gets a little annoying to have to do it over and over again when I have so many other more important things to do.

I guess I'm wondering why there can't be coordination between DEC, GVAS and building management.

A shortage of staff for all parties. DEC and building management don't have the money to hire that staff. GVAS relies on volunteers and hasn't been able to attract and keep enough people with the combination of appropriate skills and the free time to carry out the necessary tasks.

Also, building management doesn't have a lot of say on how tenants run their businesses. For example, management can't make it too difficult for the tenants' clients to enter the building, or the tenants will leave (maybe even sue -- they are lawyers, after all). So just about anyone can enter the building and potentially interfere with banding.

Well alrighty then-was just askin'! I'm done now cuz I have important things to do too!

[dale]

The situation may be different for some reason, but Evanston is right on the border of Chicago, and lots and lots of people are interested in the falcons. The banding is always on a weekday morning; it's announced in the media, on the internet, open to the public and press, and takes place on the third floor of a library. It gets a bit crowded, but nothing at all out of hand that I ever saw. The Field Museum folks bring the eyases down, take blood, band them, answer questions, pose for a photo op . . . no one rushes the banding table or acts obnoxious . . . so it's possible. There are always a bunch of parents who bring their kids, and they get to come closer.

I didn't get to go this year - no longer live on that side of the city and was working . . . too bad...

[Donna]

If anyone should be invited, it should be the main watchers!   

[Shaky]

The situation may be different for some reason, but Evanston is right on the border of Chicago, and lots and lots of people are interested in the falcons. The banding is always on a weekday morning; it's announced in the media, on the internet, open to the public and press, and takes place on the third floor of a library. It gets a bit crowded, but nothing at all out of hand that I ever saw. The Field Museum folks bring the eyases down, take blood, band them, answer questions, pose for a photo op . . . no one rushes the banding table or acts obnoxious . . . so it's possible. There are always a bunch of parents who bring their kids, and they get to come closer.

I didn't get to go this year - no longer live on that side of the city and was working . . . too bad...

There is a big difference between a building owned, used, and staffed by a singe entity; and a building rented out to many small, budget-conscious law offices whose clients may want to avoid crowds.

Banding at TSB is not done in a big public space typical of a library. It's done in a vacant (abandoned?) office on an upper floor that can't be reached by elevator. The only other option would be to do it in the stairwell. Neither are optimal for spectators. It would be a situation just asking for something to go wrong

And that's how things get out of hand.

[Shaky]

If anyone should be invited, it should be the main watchers!   

I agree, but that's only one point of view. DEC may have another pov. The building owner may have yet another.  And what about tenants and their employees? What about GVAS? Sponsors?

Who's pov counts? Who's in charge? Who has a say? Who is responsible if someone is injured? Who is responsible if a falcon is injured? What's the plan? How are these various parties supposed to interact with each other? Who wants to organize it? Who has time to organize it? Will it be satisfactory for all parties? Why should a party follow a plan if it doesn't agree with it?

[Donna]

If anyone should be invited, it should be the main watchers!   

I agree, but that's only one point of view. DEC may have another pov. The building owner may have yet another.  And what about tenants and their employees? What about GVAS? Sponsors?

Who's pov counts? Who's in charge? Who has a say? Who is responsible if someone is injured? Who is responsible if a falcon is injured? What's the plan? How are these various parties supposed to interact with each other? Who wants to organize it? Who has time to organize it? Will it be satisfactory for all parties? Why should a party follow a plan if it doesn't agree with it?

Holy ???'s Batman!! 

[dale]

The situation may be different for some reason, but Evanston is right on the border of Chicago, and lots and lots of people are interested in the falcons. The banding is always on a weekday morning; it's announced in the media, on the internet, open to the public and press, and takes place on the third floor of a library. It gets a bit crowded, but nothing at all out of hand that I ever saw. The Field Museum folks bring the eyases down, take blood, band them, answer questions, pose for a photo op . . . no one rushes the banding table or acts obnoxious . . . so it's possible. There are always a bunch of parents who bring their kids, and they get to come closer.

I didn't get to go this year - no longer live on that side of the city and was working . . . too bad...

There is a big difference between a building owned, used, and staffed by a singe entity; and a building rented out to many small, budget-conscious law offices whose clients may want to avoid crowds.

Banding at TSB is not done in a big public space typical of a library. It's done in a vacant (abandoned?) office on an upper floor that can't be reached by elevator. The only other option would be to do it in the stairwell. Neither are optimal for spectators. It would be a situation just asking for something to go wrong

And that's how things get out of hand.

Nothing might go wrong, but that's definitely a different sort of location!!  A library is so welcoming and already-public -- open and set up for and insured for the public. What you're describing is entirely different, of course!

[Dot_Forrester]

  Please, could everyone back off just a bit and drop this discussion before someone's feelings are irreparably hurt? The quiet non-public banding is how it's going to be, no matter what anyone posts on the forum. This entire topic is becoming more and more unpleasant each day, and that saddens me.

Dot in PA